Having pastors the middlemen between the government and the people in times of crisis the pastors refer to Romans 13 to ‘obey the governments as they are ordained by God”. The most dangerous lie is the one that is the closest to the truth, but is not. Learn what Romans 13 really says and means and don’t be duped by your 501c3 incorporated pastors who are under government control.
The following is taken from ChristianMediaResearch.com.
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In Romans 13:1-4 we read: “Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.”
These words have been widely interpreted to simply mean all believers should obey the government because government has been ordained of God. This particular view is a gross distortion of the truth. In this context, I’ve found that when a superficial reading of a certain text somehow doesn’t seem logical, it’s useful to look at the actions of the writer to see if his life and actions are consistent with your interpretation of his teaching. In short, when Paul writes that “they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation,” but the book of Acts shows Paul repeatedly doing just that, there must be something wrong with our understanding of the text. And that’s precisely what we see throughout the New Testament.
When Paul writes in the opening statement “Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers” the obvious question is who or what are the higher powers? This phrase would have to apply to any higher powers, be they spiritual or earthly. Obviously, in the spiritual realm, there are good and bad powers. On one side we have the Lord and his great angelic host. In the other group, we find Lucifer and “the angels which kept not their first estate.” (Jude 1:6) This fallen host most certainly qualifies as a “higher power” for Satan is referred to as the “prince of the power of the air” (Ephesians 2:2). Later in that same book, Paul tells us “We wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.” (Ephesians 6:12).
Common sense tells you that Paul is not telling us to be “subject to” the Satanic higher powers in the spiritual realm, so why do we assume he is telling us to be subject to evil earthly powers? How could it be scriptural for us to cooperate with the earthly agency of that spiritual wickedness? The next verse says “Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.” If we resist the evil in the spiritual realm, it’s clear we don’t receive damnation as a result! How then, could this verse mean if we resist evil in the earthly realm we receive damnation? In other words, in cases where the evil is vested in government, the idea that we are no longer to resist this evil is ludicrous.
Paul is telling us we must not resist the righteous power of God – whether it is manifested in the heavenlies or in various earthly sectors – including righteous government.
When Pilate and Herod give Jesus an order to speak, Christ resists their orders and remains silent (Matthew 27:13, Luke 23:7). When Paul has been beaten illegally by evil men within the Roman government, he refuses their command to come out of the jail and defiantly says “…let them come themselves and fetch us out.” (Acts 16:37). That’s not resisting?
When Peter is assisted in a jail-break by an angel, how is that obeying the government? (Acts 12:7) Did the Apostle “receive damnation” because he didn’t ask the evil rulers ‘Can I go now?’ The writer of Hebrews tells his readers “ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.” (Hebrews 12:4). That firmly implies the Christians were appropriately resisting the evil, but every instance of that resistance ending in bloodshed occurs at the hands of the authorities. Whom were they resisting? The Evil Authority.
When Stephen was murdered, it was the religious leadership of the Jews that “set up false witnesses” to justify their unlawful crime. They even brought him before the high priest who was in agreement with the heinous killing of the young Christian. (Acts 6:13, 7:1, 15). When criminal elements have a position of control and authority within the government, believers have an obligation to resist them–not to twist the scriptures into justification for compliance with an ungodly government. In Damascus, the Jews that had authority under the governmental edict establishing their position (John 11:48) sought to murder Saul (Acts 9:23). Saul escaped over the wall as he left Damascus. That sounds like resistance to me.
In Revelation, the true saints of God that oppose the Antichrist “overcame him by the blood of the lamb….” (Revelation 12:11). Antichrist heads the world government that is already in power in the form of the United Nations (Revelation 13:1). Many say ‘if and when the mark of the beast is installed, then I’ll oppose the law!’ At that point it’s too late! And if you’re so blind as to continue to take part in the beast system in America now, what makes you think you’ll have the discernment to even recognize the “mark” system when it occurs?
David gives us definitive marching orders when he tells us to “Defend the poor and fatherless.” (Psalms 82:3) Would that not include a baby that is murdered as he is trying to be born? Under the current law of what is called “partial birth abortion,” a doctor can legally murder a 9 month old baby that is 25% out of the womb! Yet it’s against the government’s law to even protest this hideous crime within so many yards of the killer’s “medical facility!” Where do you draw the line? Every true believer should have drawn the line years ago, but most go on citing Romans 13 with no understanding whatsoever. Soon, they will hear another scripture: “Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.” (Matthew 25:41-43).
This is more than a call to charity. This is a directive to do the things Christ has told us to do – regardless of what the government tells you is legal or illegal. For example, a pastor in Southern California was recently brought up on charges for bringing poor and hungry people into his church to sleep because it was against the zoning laws. He chose to “obey God rather than men.” (Acts 5:29).
In another example, the majority of states in America have enacted what they call “hoarding” laws which make it illegal to possess too much food; yet the Bible tells us there’s a great famine coming. I Timothy says “But if any provide not for his own, and specially those of his own house, he is worse than an infidel.” (I Timothy 5:8). In this instance, who should you be listening to, the word of God, or some local ordinance that was unconstitutionally enacted by evil men?
We must always remember that our “kingdom is not of this world.” (John 18:36). If we become conformed to the ways of this world, how can we then “be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer.” (I Thessalonians 1:5). Are you suffering because you’re resisting the kingdom of Antichrist, or are you committing spiritual fornication by living deliciously with him? (Revelation 18:9).
– James Lloyd
©2002 CHRISTIAN MEDIA RESEARCH, ALL RIGHTS RESERVED
I’m looking forward to getting more information about this topic, don’t worry about negative opinions.
Good article on Rom 13. I hate the way the churchians twist it. Hitler used it against the churchians of his time also. That’s why they remained passive in the face of so much genocide. I’m not saying we should fight back in a fleshly way but we should be following the Truth (Jesus John 14:6), not religious men who have been duped by the antichrist government system of this present world. If more professing Christians follow the Truth instead of lies, then God and His angels would protect us and fight for us in the spriritual realm. By not following the Truth, these churchians give strength and power to the enemy to grow bigger and more oppressive. I’d like to hear your take on the 2010 Census and Rom 13. I find the Census evil and oppressive and the Scriptures say to “hate what is evil” thus, I didn’t send mine back. Some “pastors” are saying that Christians who refused to send back their Census are hypocrites for disobeying Rom 13.
It is the pastors that are the hypocrites.. these churches are simply State Churches incorporated under the 501(c)3 tax exemption which ties them to obey certain guidelines the gov’t puts forth. The government tells them what they can and cannot say… and will be, if not already directing the their affairs. Here is more on that subject: http://ecclesia.org/truth/501-church.html
As far as the census, I can pull from II Samuel 24:10: And David’s heart smote him after that he had numbered the people. And David said unto the LORD, I have sinned greatly in that I have done: and now, I beseech thee, O LORD, take away the iniquity of thy servant; for I have done very foolishly.
Yes, I’ve referred to that verse also but you know what the 501(c)3 “Pastors” will say: “Oh, thats the Old Testament, we’re not under the law anymore….” or something to that effect. (Even though Jesus said in the NEW Testament that a householder is to “seek treasures OLD and new” (meaning Old and New Testaments). And 2 Pet 3:2 says “Heed the prophets that came before.” (Samuel was a prophet that came before). But you can’t make those in the flesh or following a false angel of light understand spiritual truths from the Holy Spirit. In the meantime, I’ll just keep obeying Jesus Christ and “Praying always that I might be found worthy to ESCAPE ALL these things that are coming to pass (tribulation) and to stand before the Son of God.” Luke 21:36 (The Son of God is presently at the right hand of the Father, so whoever the few are that are counted worthy to escape the tribulation will be standing before Him, in heaven). The churchians who think they will be “raptured” away are in for a rude awakening since Jesus implied in that verse and in the parable of the wise virgins that only a minority will be counted worthy. I respectfully disagree with your stance on the rapture occurring at the 42 months great tribulation. Jesus said when they say “peace and safety” then sudden distruction will come upon them. IN Rev 3:10 He said that a certain group of Philadelphian believers will be kept from the “hour of trial coming upon the WHOLE earth.” Obviously, these believers will not be on the earth, or that verse would not be completely true and if they are saying “peace and safety” when sudden destruction comes then it could not be during the 2nd half of the tribulation following the seal judgments.
To be KEPT is to be PROTECTED not REMOVED… if believers don’t think they will be here during the tribulation than they don’t have to worry about the mark of the beast and all the other happenings during this time, which leaves them open to accepting the false prophet.
“This can’t be the tribulation because we would have been raptured by now” is what they will say.
I respect your views but I believe I have biblical evidence the position I’m putting forward is correct and hope to discuss this in the future, in a civil manner. I do not like arguing or fighting over doctrine… I prefer to share in a spirit of peace not strife, and I think you feel the same way.
Looking forward to discussing this in more detail.
I agree with you about not liking to argue or cause strife. I certainly hope I did not come across that way and I definately did not mean to if I did. I think we can disagree in a friendly and rational way, don’t you? If you would please just consider my Scriputerally backed view on this as I have already considered yours. You can feel free to disagree with me without becoming angry. I respect your views and agree with you on Romans 13 and the Freemasonic controlled/501(c)3 “Pastors” but like you, I believe my views are also Biblically valid. And I’m certain that I won’t take the Mark of the Beast! I’m “watching” for Jesus, not the Antichrist as He commanded me. (“Watch and pray……Luke 21:36) However, I also obey His command to “be ye wise as serpents” and I’ve done plenty of research on the enemy Antichrist and his mark as well as prophetic study and I read my Bible and pray every day. I don’t think the Holy Spirit will allow me to be deceived if I am continually faithful to Him and humble to receive His teaching (not my own flawed opinion or pet doctrine). I just happen to believe what Luke 21:36 says (“like a child” at face value) and there are many other verses in the Bible that speak of “escapes” , esp. in the Old Testament, that the Lord provides for those who are faithful to Him. You and I can both agree that God doesn’t lie (titus 1:1) There absolutely will be an escape from all, exactly like the Bible says there will be in Luke 21:36, the stories of Noah, Lot, Enoch, Rev 3 and 4 etc. Enoch and Elijah were both completely removed from this present world. Noah and Lot were removed physically.
The tribulation is also known as the time of JACOB’S trouble. The same error that causes men to perpetuate the idolatrous “pastoral system” (nicolaitanism) also causes them to not understand the escape from all. The pastoral system is an idolatrous system that men have created and perpetuated for generations to nico-lait (conquer the laity). Paul did not appoint “pastors” he appointed ELDERS, plural to oversee the church. The church is in heaven before the judgments/seals of Rev 6 are opened. That’s a fact. How did the church get there? The “open door” of Rev 3, Rev 4 and Matt 25, that is in heaven.
Rev 5:8 And when he took the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell before the Lamb, having each one harps and golden vials full of perfumes, which are the prayers of the saints, 9 and they sing a new song, saying, ‘Worthy art thou to take the scroll, and to open the seals of it, because thou wast slain, and didst redeem us to God in thy blood, out of every tribe, and tongue, and people, and nation, 10 and didst make us to our God kings and priests, and we shall reign upon the earth.’
Rev 5 is absolute, irrefutable proof that redeemed men are in heaven before the seals or anything else in the book of Rev is poured out on the earth. And who are these “redeemed men?” They are elders. Todays form of “christianity” would have you believe that there were 24 “pastors” circling the throne of revelation, but there are no “pastors” mentioned, there are elders. These elders oversee the (true spiritual) church. If there are any men who represent, guide or direct the true church on earth, it is elders, not pastors….A common error perpetuated by the people who beg and argue to go through the tribulation is that the 24 elders don’t really represent the full church so the rapture did not really occur before Rev 6? To that I say ….really? Based on what, their opinion? Consider all the problems these people have explaining these things:
1. Who exactly is going through the doors in Matt 25 (wise virgins), Rev 3 and Rev 4? Doors are open for people to go through them.
2. How do they explain how the 24 elders got into heaven? A “micro-rapture” that only raptured 24 people?
3. How do they explain the “us” that the Elders speak to the Lord about that consists of “every tribe, and tongue, and people, and nation?”
4. Fact: there are many many more than 24 peoples, tribes, tongues, nations on this earth so fact there are many more than 24 redeemed men in heaven that make up the “US” the elders speak to the Lord about in Rev 5.
5. The church is not mentioned after Rev 5. Where did they go? Yea, I’ve read all the ridiculous thousand plus word essays and arguments used to place the church in Rev after Rev 5, but none of them hold water. If the Lord spoke specifically to the churches in Rev 1-3 then he could speak specifically to the churches after Rev 3, but he didn’t. In Rev 7 we read about 144,000 Jews from each of the tribes of Israel being sealed, where is the church during this time? I see Jews fleeing from Judea during the abomination of desolation but where is the church at this time? There are no idle words in the bible, if the Lord purposefully addressed the churches in Rev 1-3 then purposefully does not address the churches ever again, there’s a reason, its not a whim or a mistake. Now when I say “church” I don’t mean the Apostianity of today. I’m talking about the true Ekklesia of Christ which are a “scattered flock”.
Bottom line:
ELDERS should oversee the churches today, but instead, men have appointed “pastors” for themselves. This has led to pride and arrogance in the pastors and idolatry in the sheep. This pastoral system IS the sin of the nicolatians specifically mentioned by the Lord in Rev 2-3. Jesus says he HATES the deeds and teachings of the nicolaitans, but men seem to love them. For the same reason that some men have rightly rejected the nicolaitans, they have not understood the escape from all/rapture. They have thrown out the baby with the bathwater.
Maybe if the Lord said his throne was surrounded by 24 “pastors” they would understand what He was talking about. But neither the Lord, nor Paul ever once appointed a pastor, spoke to one, ate with one, referenced one in all the travels we see in the entire new testament. Men offer to “service” the Lord every SUN-day the way a prostitute “services” her clients. The Lord is not looking to be “serviced” though, he is looking for a faithful wife. The true church is “not appointed to wrath” and does not “go to church” because it is impossible to “go to church” when we are the church 24/7/365 days a year.
Every day, there is more and more irrefutable proof that the church will be in heaven, not on earth when the seals of Rev 6 are opened. The “other tribbers” are terribly vexed when they are forced to explain how the church can both “escape from all” and go through part or all of the time of Jacob’s trouble. They are terribly vexed when asked to explain how redeemed men are shown in heaven in Rev 4 and 5 before the Tribulation starts without a rapture/escape from all to put them there. These people are terribly vexed when they are asked to explain exactly who is passing through these “doors” we read about in Matt 25, Rev 3 and 4. Did the Lord open the doors for no reason?
The “other tribbers” along with many other occult groups do everything in their power to create DOUBT in the minds of men regarding one of the most fantastic gifts that the Lord will ever give men short of salvation. There IS an escape from all coming…thats a fact, God does not lie. There are redeemed men in heaven from every tribe, tongue, nation and people before the seals of Rev 6 are opened, that’s another fact.
The naysayers and doubters who refuse to take the Lord’s word at face value are likely the foolish virgins who come knocking on the Lord’s door later and are told by the Lord “I never knew you.” Later is the key word here. It takes absolutely zero faith to believe in an escape from all AFTER it happens. Notice that the Lord does not tell the virgins who were shut out in Matt 25 to “come back at the midpoint or end” of the tribulation to enter the marriage feast. They are told “I never knew you.” Big difference would’nt you say? If there were later raptures, why wouldn’t the Lord tell the foolish virgins to wait for them?
Matt 25:10“But while they were on their way to buy the oil, the bridegroom arrived. The virgins who were ready went in with him to the wedding banquet. And the door was shut.
11“Later the others also came. ‘Sir! Sir!’ they said. ‘Open the door for us!’
12“But he replied, ‘I tell you the truth, I don’t know you.’
13“Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day or the hour.
Notice what the foolish virgins ask the Lord for…they ask “open the door for us!” Does that look familiar at all? Open the door for us?
Rev 3 These are the words of Him who is holy and true, who holds the key of David. What He opens no one can shut, and what He shuts no one can open. 8I know your deeds. See, I have placed before you an open door that no one can shut. I know that you have little strength, yet you have kept My word and have not denied my name. 9 I will make those who are of the synagogue of Satan, who claim to be Jews though they are not, but are liars—I will make them come and fall down at your feet and acknowledge that I have loved you. 10 Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come upon the whole world to test those who live on the earth.
Rev 4:1 After this I looked, and there before me was a door standing open in heaven. And the voice I had first heard speaking to me like a trumpet said, “Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after this.”
What do we know about the foolish virgins? They were not ready. They end up coming later to knock on the Lord’s door. Do you think that people who argue with people day and night trying to convince anyone who will listen that there is not an escape from all, there is not a pre-trib rapture, we will go through part or all of God’s judgments on the ungodly, do you think that these people will be counted worthy to escape from all? Are they obediently praying to escape from all? Does their faith and belief put them in heaven or in the tribulation? In the Bible, it is according to your faith that things are done to you and for you.
Matthew 9:29 Then he touched their eyes and said, “According
to your faith will it be done to you”;
This is no trivial subject as so many would make it out to be. If there is a worthiness based “escape from all” that the Lord clearly tells us about in Luke 21:36, and there are people who actively try to debunk it, and those people do create doubt in the minds of people, thus shipwrecking their faith for one of the greatest events the church will ever see, then those men are guilty of theft and the work of the enemy who has been creating doubt and fear from the very beginning.
These people ask you “hath God really said there is an escape from all?” Gosh, that sounds so familiar:
Gen 3:1 Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the LORD God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?”
If there is anything at all I am sure of about our God, it is this: our God rewards faith. He rewards those who believe that his word means what it says it means at face value. We don’t need thousand word essays to explain to us what God’s word means in a few words. If God said there was an escape from all then you can bet the farm the goat and the family that there IS an escape from all, guaranteed.
The Lord has restoked this fire within me. Our God meant what He said he meant in the bible in plain language. If your understanding of the bible comes from “spiritualizing” the words to mean something other than what they mean at face value, I truly believe it will come at a frightening personal cost to you.
The Lord is coming like a thief, at a time that most will not be aware of. We are supposed to be watching for HIM not the Antichrist and his Mark of the Beast. We are watching TODAY unlike so many who would tell us that the Lord can’t show up until later because of their pet doctrines. Let us be found as wise virgins, ready for our Lord every day so when he shows up we are not caught unprepared.
I’ve spent so much time discussing the rapture topic back in 1997 that I found it very rare that either person’s point of view changes.. although it does happen.. usually from pre-trib to post.
I will address one point, you say “The Lord is coming like a thief, at a time that most will not be aware of. We are supposed to be watching for HIM not the Antichrist and his Mark of the Beast. We are watching TODAY unlike so many who would tell us that the Lord can’t show up until later because of their pet doctrines.”
But the Bible goes on to say…
IThes5:4But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
5Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
6Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
So He does not come like a thief to those in the light.
Jesus commands us to WATCH.
Thank you for at least reading my post. That’s more than I get from the majority of post tribbers who have their minds made up. 1 Thess 5:4 does not cancel out Luke 21:36. 1 Thess 5:4 is referring to believers who have had their eyes opened to the enemies devices and are no longer in “darkness”. Just because I believe God will keep certain ones counted worthy from the Tribulation does not mean that I am walking about in darkness, unaware that “the whole whole lieth under the sway (deception) of the wicked one.” 1 John 5:19. 1 Thess 5:4 just supports the pre tribulation view since Jesus said when they say “peace and safety” (walking in darkness, unaware of what the Luciferians/Illuminati is up to) then sudden destruction comes upon them. No, to the contrary, those counted worthy to escape from all as Luke 21:36 promises are not walking around in “darkness” as to what the antichrist governments of the world are up to. It seems you would have discerned that about me already from my knowledge of Rom 13 and the government as well as the apostate government controlled pastors. I am fully aware of all these things that are soon coming to pass. However that does not cancel out Christ’s command to Watch for Him, not the antichrist and his mark. You are right in that your mind is made up and so is mine. We will soon find out who was walking in the Truth and who has been deceived.
Let’s say you are right, but for the sake of discussion.. let’s say you misinterpreted… and it happens to be a Post-Trib or second coming catching up of believers who are alive and remain and that there was no ‘pre-trib’ rapture…
Would there be a time that you would recognize you were mistaken and you actually were in the last 42 months (let’s say you realized seals and trumpets being fulfilled)… would you question your faith or the Word?
or Will you not even consider it for a moment?
If you are correct, then I have done nothing wrong according to Scripture. I am obeying Luke 21:36 by watching and praying to be counted worthy to escape all (I believe God means all when He says it) but if I have misinterpreted Him and have to go through the Tribulation He also said that I (those who follow Him in truth) are not appointed to wrath. The 7 year tribulation is God’s wrath on the wicked and the time of Jacob’s trouble(the unbelieving Jews). So, if you are correct, and I am either not counted worthy to escape or their was no escape and God’s word was misinterpreted, I would not lose my faith in Him. He has come through for me time and time again, and His magnificient creation testifies of Him so that whoever does not believe in His is without excuse. Not only that but most of His O/T prophecies have come true exactly as written and all the end time prophecies of Jeremiah Chpts 50-51, Isaiah 13, Obadiah (entire book) and Hosea are coming true exactly as prophesied. I would be an absolute fool to stop believing in Him even if I have to become a martyr. But however, I can turn that question back to you: What if I am correct and you did obey His commandment to be counted worthy to escape and did not believe His clear word in favor of other verses that are more obscure and could possibly have a different meaning? Remember God does not contradict Himself. Bible verses do not cancel each other out. I always take the clear verses as absolute truth and use them as a foundation for the more obscure ones. I think that is called “rightly dividing the Word of Truth.” God said their would be an escape from all and I don’t see why I am sinning for believing Him.